a question...
Considering the complete media shut out in Pakistan, what is amazing is how much information is still coming out of the country, especially through blogs like Emad's, among others.
The question I have is 'Would the world be any different if the internet was as widespread when events like Tiananmen Square, the Rwandan genocide or the holocaust were taking place?'
The question I have is 'Would the world be any different if the internet was as widespread when events like Tiananmen Square, the Rwandan genocide or the holocaust were taking place?'
posted by Pierre at 6:53 AM
16 Comments:
On smaller events and atrocities, yes, but not on those low notes of human history.
Knowing is one thing, but the willingness to act is another. The world will express their horror and move on.
8:45 AM
I think there is a difference between Pakistan and Rwanda.
Pakistan is a nuclear power, a Muslim country where there is many madrases and a key player in the so called war on terror.
Rwanda, as much as was a very dark and evil time for humanity, the world didn't care because there was no strategic value in helping out.
So I would say no to your question.
3:21 PM
let's say we had YouTube videos of Rwandans being hacked apart by machetes and their bodies piled up at roadblocks.
would this not shame one of the western countries into paying for a plane to jam the radio transmissions that were directing the killers?
10:32 PM
you tube videos and blogs may bring raw visibility to atrocities in the absence of media, but at the end of the day it is the strategic interest that drives the decision behind the round table. I don't think there is much more to it..
11:46 PM
I'm doubtful. Today's technology hasn't played any significant role in "shaming" the West into meaningful involvement in Darfur.
2:53 AM
the only success so far has been with Burma and there was no impact. people cared in the west... a little. but had no impact on chinese or indian policy
3:03 AM
Here's the problem - there is no Security NGOs.
When atrocities happen, you have relief organizations flying in to help the victims that managed to stay alive, but there is no military force that can inject itself in the conflict and provide temporary relief in security point of view.
There's always a worry that security intervention will escalate the conflict further.
Until you are willing to reconsider heavily armed NGOs and the concept of nation sovereignty, we are stuck at the current status quo.
Right now, "let enough of them die so no one else left to kill" approach is used to end atrocities because it's the cheapest in terms of money and resources.
Therefore it makes more sense to work on prevention. Once the violence breaks out, it costs an order magnitude of time, money and people to end it.
12:27 PM
Another question :)
Is it just me, or are the demonstrations in pakistan very mellow when compared to the Paki demonstrations during the Danish cartoons?
Its like I havent seen major strikes, burned cars, burned embassies, or burning flags effigies!
How odd is that! Does a strong Muslim identity over come the national one to that extent?
12:35 PM
I think people that have interest coming down on the street for democracy is different from people that goes out on the Danish cartoons.
On the other hand, I think you are pointing out on the jarring reality that more people care about issue that doesn't affect their daily life (a bunch of offensive cartoons) than the issues of their country.
I don't think it's a matter of identity, it could just be that the government of Pakistan is irrelevant to most Pakistanis.
12:45 PM
In the Danish cartoons controversy - the people who were protesting were mostly workers of religious political parties and/or were fueled by statements being issued by thm. By and large, the general population got sick and tired of the protests - as a resident of Karachi, Pakistan - I know for a fact that the closure of shops, businesses and schools during that time caused a great deal of frustration.
Secondly, as a nation, you're right that the government has become irrelevant. Having had such a tumultuous history, people have become apathetic to the extent where it doesn't matter anymore, because they're more concerned with finding employment or being able to earn enough money to cover their basic costs.
Thirdly, noone knows what is going on or how Martial Law / a state of 'emergency plus' is going to impact a citizen's rights. The older generation has lived through Martial Law before and for them, this is nothing new. There is a low degree of literacy, and you'd be amazed at how even educated people don't have any knowledge of what their basic rights as citizens are. The images and events that we are seeing unfolding in Pakistan are completely unknown to Pakistanis in the country because they have no access to news. This is a crackdown on the media and judiciary, and when anyone and everyone who can lead a political demonstration is behind bars..the masses have nowhere to turn to.
12:59 PM
i am posting this from islamabad, where streets are completely empty, except for the heavy security that is omnipresent. although it is true that virtually all opposition leaders are behind bars, there are still many people out there who simply don't care. i work in a pakistani company and i can't believe how complacent people at work are.. lunch breaks are spent chatting about anything but politics... it is so frustrating and it saddens me that a history of one failed system after the other has managed to silence people in a way that is much more effective than locking them away: making them completely numb and apathetic.
my prayers are with those who are out there.
1:30 PM
this calls to mind a passage from one book I like, Cortazar's Rayuela:
"Y por qu� entonces inquietarse si probablemente el mundo es finito, la historia se acerca al punto �ptimo, la raza humana sala de la edad media para ingresar en la era cibern�tica."
[Then why worry, if the world is most likely finiate, and if history is approaching an optimal point, and if the human race is leaving the middle ages to enter into the cybernetic era.]
2:51 PM
Dode, are you advocating for an international police force?
5:14 PM
the dode is advocating mercenaries, in fact, but they are not for profit
5:37 PM
sounds more like UN peacekeepers
8:16 PM
Yup, mercenaries.
UN Peacekeepers are not effective to end a conflict. They cannot act as peacemakers and they cost a lot of money to deploy compared to a bunch of hardened mercenaries.
As long as you rely on state agreement to end conflict, whatever the problem we have in the current system remains.
Mercenaries will work well in a hollow state like Somalia but they won't save any strong state that what to fuck their own citizens.
5:42 PM
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